Leopoldina member Bimberg: 'The Chinese industry is much more open toward research'

Professor Bimberg, the Chinese Academy of Sciences founded the "Bimberg Chinese-German Center for Green Photonics," named after you at the Changchun Institute of Optics Fine Mechanics and Physics (CIOMP). (中国科学院长春光学精密机械与物理研究所). What is it that you do there?

Over twelve years ago, my group at TU Berlin was one of the first in the world to specialize in "green" photonics, that is, energy efficiency, especially in optical data transmission and in data centers. In Changchun, we conduct basic research with students. We also patent our ideas in the EU and the USA. All of our results are published – mainly in US journals.

Why don't you do research at German institutions?

In Germany, once you reach a certain age, you are no longer allowed to use the laboratories you have set up – even if you pay for the staff yourself, for example, via EU contracts – so you are no longer allowed to research like I do. In the United States, this is unconstitutional. And in China, my experience is apparently still considered useful. The country allows me to implement my ideas.

And does it benefit from this by strengthening its innovative power compared to Germany, thanks to your help?

Germany benefits equally from our basic research. All the patents we develop are available for sale internationally. I have also been in talks with a leading German laser company for some time. Whoever buys first gets to own the innovations.

Is it correct to assume that we are falling behind China from a technological perspective? Or is the Chinese side just telling us this in order to tie us unconditionally to China?

Both are true in part. China naturally has an interest in building close relations with us. However, I believe that our economy is hesitant when it comes to acquiring patents from German universities. The TU Berlin already sold some of our patents to Asia years ago for a seven-figure sum, but not to German DAX companies.

Does this mean that the German economy rejects the results of German research?

Certainly not categorically, but during my talks with large companies, I hardly ever came across internally independent innovation managers like the ones I had when I worked for Hewlett-Packard in Palo Alto. During my time there, we regularly flew from Palo Alto to seminars at the university in Santa Barbara to learn about the latest research in areas that were important to us.

And in Germany?

We conduct a lot of basic research in Germany, both at universities and at the institutes of the Leibniz and Helmholtz Associations. This has little to do with current social needs or new company products. But even if basic research develops patents, companies are still faced with the problem that implementing processes they have not developed themselves would involve investments that they would shy away from.

How can we then bridge the gap between research and the economy so that Germany also benefits as a business hub?

With spin-offs, in other words outsourcing the patent and further developing it in a separate company. Industry representatives have told me that, as an alternative, they would invest in the purchase of mature spin-offs with sufficiently trained staff instead of converting their own production to a new process based solely on a patent.

So the reason why we are losing innovative strength is just a lack of entrepreneurial spirit at German universities?

No, the universities lack both money and strong industrial cooperation partners. Despite its excellence status, TU Berlin can barely pay its existing staff. But it doesn't have enough money to repair run-down buildings. We should improve the organization of the funds available to the state.

How?

The success of Helmholtz and Leibniz institutes should also be measured in terms of achieving a certain number of patents, validating them and actively pursuing spin-offs. We also need to consider integrating some of the institutes or parts of them with their resources into the universities. This would allow them to focus more on research instead of acquiring third-party funding. In many places, we fail to give more value to application-oriented research.

Why Helmholtz and Leibniz specifically?

Because they receive a lot of money over the long term. They mainly conduct basic research, which is hoped to pay off at some point. That is not enough, but they are good lobbyists for their structures. The situation is different at the Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft in particular, where around 80 percent of the funding has to come from projects.

Do you believe that reallocations can permanently return Germany to the world's top 3 innovation powerhouses?

It would at least be an important starting point. However, it would also be important to invest in the integration of international students and visiting academics – for example, through language training. We must try to make life here easier for them. Then they will stay here. But companies can also do more. The Chinese industry is much more open toward research. They put money on the table and tell universities or research institutions like ours: In one or two years, we will need this solution to a current problem, you can do it.

So it is not etched in stone that Germany is hopelessly behind China when it comes to innovation?

Of course not. There are always new challenges where everyone has to start from scratch again. A good example is vaccine development. We have to prevent ourselves from becoming isolated from China or the USA because we are afraid that someone will take something away from us. We have to face the competition. We can do that. But we also have to understand that we won't get far with work-life balance as a core aspect of an organizational culture. We all need to invest more in workforce and intelligence. We have the potential. Business as usual will leave us falling behind.

Nano physicist and solid-state researcher Dieter Bimberg is a member of the German Academy of Sciences Leopoldina, honorary member of the Ioffe Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Fellow of the American Physical Society, Life Fellow of the Institute of Electronic and Electrical Engineers, Foreign Member of the US National Academy of Engineering. In 2012, TU Berlin awarded him the Golden Honorary Medal for outstanding achievements in research and teaching. Since 2018, he has headed the Bimberg Sino-German Center for Green Photonics named after him at the Changchun Institute of Optics, Fine Mechanics and Physics.